Honorable Alumni Shahina Ferdous and Samiha Samrose were interviewed. Shahina Ferdous completed her BSc in CSE from BUET in 2006. Then she went to pursue a Ph.D. in computer science from the University of Texas at Arlington. After her post-graduation, she has been working in the industry and is currently employed as a software engineer at Facebook. Before that, she had worked in Microsoft for more than 4 years as a software engineer. She specializes in Data mining, machine learning, and wireless sensor networks.
Samiha Samrose is currently a 4th-year Ph.D. student of Computer Science at the University of Rochester. She completed her BSc in CSE from BUET in 2014. She has worked as a research intern for Amazon, Affectiva, and is currently working with Microsoft Research. Her areas of interest are Human-computer interaction, Machine Learning, and affective computing. The interview was taken by Arpita Saha and Mahmud Musfique.
How did you feel motivated to study for a Ph.D.? And what is the area of your research?
ANS: Shahina apu: I didn’t feel much motivated when I first started it. But I came aboard for good opportunities and to see my capabilities. The area was a pervasive assistive environment. This research is mainly focused on elderly people. There aren’t many people to look after them. So to assist them, the research was based on sensors. Like if they were to take medication, through sensors(like motion sensors, weight sensors)we can know if they have taken them or not. And if there is no activity for a long time, we could check on them or can call someone to go there physically. The research was solely based on helping them. The research required a handsome amount of data mining and machine learning. When I started it I didn’t know much about human-computer interaction. But working on it, I felt very excited. And there is so much one can do in this area. Like when someone works under their supervisor, the work is limited. But when you work in these kinds of fields, they are more practical and fun. After the Ph.D., the work area is pretty different than the research works. But the research was very fun and helpful.
Samiha apu: My research area is affective computing. It’s the machine’s understanding of human emotions and behavior. The first part is understanding and the second part is how to respond to that. My work is on a group conversation. Like in a group conversation, if one person takes up all the time, then others don’t get a chance to talk. Thus the meeting loses its productivity and satisfaction. This is a platform that processes emotion and behavior and gives feedback determining whether it’s positive or negative. It can be done through real-time feedback or designing a chatbot. I work on analyzing the productivity and satisfaction of a meeting according to its agenda. It’s very helpful in a global virtual meeting. And in this time of the pandemic, I am hopeful that it will be more recognized.
In Bangladesh, people stereotype women by saying that they are suitable only for the medical profession. How did you guys deal with this concept and how did you overcome it?
ANS: Shahina apu: Well, I have faced it too. But my family didn’t say this because I am a girl. They said because I can do more for the family if I become a doctor. But I never liked biology. I always had a knack for math and other science-related subjects. They gave me a deal that I can be an engineer only if I can get admitted to a good university with a moderate subject. So, I didn’t have to do much for this.
Samiha apu: Like many girls, I grew up knowing that I would be a doctor. But when I saw some of my seniors getting admitted to Buet. I felt interested and looked into it. Then I told my family that I want to be an engineer. They never forbade me. But I know that it’s not easy for a lot of girls in our country to pursue an engineering career over medicine due to family pressure. But I think in my case they should look up to their role model and go for their dream.
A lot of people stereotype that girls are bad at coding and math. You guys of course are above this. But for the girls who are younger enough to fight this stereotype, what is your suggestion for them?
ANS: Shahina apu: This can be changed by showing people examples of women who are good at math and coding. Some families unconsciously assume that girls are bad at those. So if we can show people more girl role models in the tech field, the stereotype can’t be broken.
Samiha apu: I feel the same.When there are 9 boys and 1 girl in a team. When 3 boys can’t do something, the percentage is low but when the girl can’t do something the percentage is 100%. So when we see someone is struggling through something, we should treat him/her as an individual, not as a person of a specific gender. This representation can change the whole perspective of gender-based stereotypes.
When a girl goes aboard for studying, family people feel insecure. How did you guys manage your family in this case?
ANS: Samiha apu: When someone does something unconventional, there are always some people to question it. I divided those questions into two categories; valid and invalid. Like when someone asked me, how am I gonna manage all the things and how am I gonna find someone when needed there. I sought help from seniors and tried to make new friends and showed them that I’m confident and self-reliant and could take care of myself perfectly. On the other hand, some asked an invalid question like why I was going alone. But I tried not to take the pressure from these questions. That’s how I managed the situation.
Shahina apu: I totally agree with her. You have to show confidence to your family. And we grow up in a protective environment in our family and that’s why they feel concerned. When they saw I managed a home by connecting with Bangladesh association there, they felt I could manage by Shahina apu: I totally agree with her. You have to show confidence to your family. And we grow up in a protective environment in our family and that’s why they feel concerned. When they saw I managed a home by connecting with Bangladesh association there, they felt I could manage by
We know the stereotypes in Bangladesh.But what about the people in other countries.Do they have these kinds of stereotypes?
ANS: Samiha apu: Some people here also have stereotypes. But people are more diverse here than in our country. And here also, girls in stem are less. That’s why some do feel discriminated against for their gender.
Shahina apu: Yes, in aboard, people do stereotype teenage girls by saying they should go for arts and literature. And they are not suitable for science subjects. But people are trying to reduce it. So yes, people are kind of similar in both situations more or less.
Can you walk us through the procedures of PhD for a girl step by step?
ANS: Shahina apu: I think the first step is to choose a professor carefully. Then you have to have a good understanding of him/her on your future plans.Then work hard because in Ph.D. you don’t have definite work hours like an office, so it’s hard to keep up. And I didn’t feel any discrimination just because I was a girl. I faced difficulties like any other Ph.D. student. And my professor was a strong female supervisor and she was very cautious about these things.
Samiha apu: When There are different rules here as in when I was in Bangladesh,I always had the concern to go home when it is dark despite having a deadline. But in here, girls work late and go home safely. But at first, I used to have fears about walking home alone at night. But I eventually overcame it. For some people, it’s hard to overcome the fear. Again, it’s hard to approach a random person for a gender-based question as a small number of girls work in STEM. So after attending seminars and workshops, one can overcome this communication gap.
For Shahina Ferdous apu. As you are currently working as an SWE. Have you ever felt that doing a Ph.D. was overkill for your current position? Or It was necessary?
ANS: Shahina apu: Initially I thought my Ph.D. was useless.As my research was on data mining. And when I joined Microsoft, I was working cloud data. But for the joining process of that company, Ph.D. was needed for the position as 99% people of my team are Ph.D. holders. And they have their priorities. In our work area, it’s a privilege to have a research experience. But if one has proper expertise in his respective field, it’s not necessary to have a Ph.D. or masters on that. But for my field, I need both research skills and experience to have the job done.
While doing internships, did you get into the R&D branch? Or the Software Development branch? How can one manage these internships?
ANS: Samiha apu: Three of my internships are research internships. Research internships are less than software internships. First, you have to seek the company and the team who are offering these internships. And then let more people know about your work and build a connection to find a suitable internship.
Shahina apu: I joined Microsoft’s internship as a software engineer. Then I switched my team for a suitable subject. In a company, it’s not very hard to switch teams. And it’s all about one’s connection and their professor’s connection with diverse people in tech. Again, networking helps a lot.
Sometimes in undergrad, we can’t do a thesis on our desired subject. If we want to change the area of our research subject in Ph.D., how are we gonna approach to professors and how are we gonna manage our CV?
ANS: Samiha apu: My undergrad research was on privacy-preserving queries. It was interesting but I wanted to work on affective computing. Switching is very encouraged here as it is considered as a diverse experience. If we can show professors that we worked on something and now we can use that knowledge to work on something else, then they accept it. Also if we can show strong reasons why we are interested in that subject, then professors appreciate that.
How do I choose a specialization for a Ph.D.?What if I don’t like the field I’m working in after 2 years?
ANS: Shahina apu: The first step, one has to read and get ideas about a lot of research fields. But after some years, if one chooses to drop the subject and switch it, it’s fine but it will just take a little bit more time than before. But the skills you get from research, you can start another one with the skill sets and it will be fine too. But in the initial years, there are more course works than research. When you start doing research solely, you will get to know it more. But if someone wants to change to a polar apart subject, then she/he has to start it from scratch.
Samiha apu: If someone wants to work on systems while working on data science, it’s a huge jump. Then that person should go for it as soon as possible. Because the work you are doing now will just go deeper day by day. Then find out what people are doing and what you want and what you can do best, then choose the subject of your preference.
Can you suggest conferences that focus on women in engineering especially?
ANS: Shahina apu: There are so many clubs and groups for women in engineering. Some are a grasshopper, grad cohort, and some local groups.
Can you share your experience in any of such conference?
ANS: Samiha apu: Yes, I attended cra-w grad cohort for two years and grasshopper one time. By accessing their newsletters and slack channels, one can join them. Also, there is a Tapia conference, which is a good platform for under representative communities. It’s good to try to attend those conferences. But if you can’t, it’s best to read the newsletter or try to be connected with them through Facebook pages
What a boy should do in a situation where there are a minority number of girls?
ANS: Samiha apu: In my team, there were 12 boys and 1 girl.When someone used to say something inappropriate. I can raise voice. But if it happens repeatedly, then the girl feels isolated.When another boy from that group raises voice for the inappropriate comment,the girl feels friendly and accepted as a team member and thus reduces the problem.
Shahina apu: There are some people who say women get so many privileges just because they are women. If boys broaden their minds about some biased comments and perspective,then it’ll be very helpful.
Samiha apu: Some people joke about same stuffs, it may be funny for them because they are doing for the first time. But the person who is being joked on feels tired of the same comment over and over again. In prize-giving ceremonies , some people say girls get privileges. But where there are 95% of boys present and there are 5 prizes, to show appreciation, a girl with same merit is chosen to give the prize because the chance of boys are higher in getting all the prizes according to probability. So by seeing all the perspective, one can get rid of his biased opinion.
When we go to contest programming, we see 95% boys and only 5% girls there. Most of the girls feel demotivated by that. How did you guys overcame that feeling?
ANS: Shahina apu: When I was in Buet, there were 5:1 ratio of boys and girls. We used to form an all-girls team. So there were no discrimination. But when I started working for Microsoft, I was the only girl in the team .So I felt a little bit intimidated. But if girls can be confident about their capability, only then we can overcome the feeling.
Samiha apu: When there is only 1 girl from a group goes to contest programming, she can feel uncomfortable. If one forms a support group and manage a time to sit together and solve problems together, then the discomfort can be reduced.
In a similar situation, girls are more pressurized than boys like when a boy gets help for an offline, it’s fine. But when a girl gets help from her male friend, then people say stuffs about her. How did you deal with that?
ANS: Shahina apu: In workplaces, it’s very hard too. When you are bossy, then people will say you are imposing power wrongly and if you are friendly, then people will say, you are flirting to get your job done. But boys are not magnified as such. And for these kind of stuffs, girls feel shy to ask questions.
Samiha apu: Exactly. And the male friends who help their female friends in coding are mocked too. So boys and girls while helping and judging others, they should see the friendship without a gender-based bias concept.
While forming teams with a girl, some guys feel discouraged because they can’t work late night with girls. Can you say few words about that?
ANS: Shahina apu: In other countries, the safety of girls is ensured.So people here work late night all the time. But in our country, it’s not possible. If that can be ensured and boys and girls can work together properly. They can understand the problem and can overcome it. Also girls will be more self-conscious and confident.
What’s the internal culture and how are the teams structure at Facebook?
ANS: Shahina apu: Facebook has a very friendly workplace. We communicate through messenger. And they also hide title so that none feel shy to express their thoughts in front of other officials. It’s a very informal place. You can talk to your manager about your ideas and you can execute your ideas very independently.
Can anyone go for PhD without doing masters?
ANS: Samiha apu: Yes, it’s possible. There will be no problem doing that.
What are your suggestions for HSC students for pursuing CSE?
ANS: Shahina apu: Now the system has changed and one has to be good at everything. But I think if you are interested in studying engineering, then you should focus more on the subjects you like. I did that.
If one wants to learn coding or robotics in an early age. What should they do?
ANS: Samiha apu: There are some sites like scratch, legoleaks for beginners. They can try doing a little bit of coding in those sites and learn it.
Shahina apu: Work hard and have confidence in yourself.
Samiha apu: Reach out to people and work hard.